EntrePastors Recap: Highlights from the Interview with Les Hughes and Jon Sanders

Jun 30, 2022

So is it OK to feel called to be a pastor…and to be more than a pastor? We’re going to talk about that in this episode of the More Than a Pastor Show.

Hello my friend! Welcome to this special recap edition of More Than a Pastor show. In just a minute, you’re going to hear me do a debrief, recap, and summary of our most recent interview with Les Hughes and Jon Sanders of EntrePastors, with my big takeaways.

But before we do that, people often ask me, what’s the most important thing pastors need in order to be successful in creating income outside the church through their own business or side hustle?

My answer is…community with other pastors who are on the same journey. That’s why I’ve launched a FREE private Facebook group just for pastors like you and me, where we can ask questions, get feedback on our ideas, and find the support and encouragement we need on our journey to income freedom. Join today at morethanapastor.com/facebook.

So in our last episode, episode 19, I had the privilege of sharing an interview with Les Hughes and Jon Sanders of EntrePastors. It was my first interview on the show.

I really love Les and Jon and what they’re doing at EntrePastors. That episode was 50 minutes long, so I didn’t really have time to share my take on some of the things they talked about.

So today I want to share my big takeaways.

Links for Today's Show

Welcome to the More Than a Pastor Show. I’m your host, Rich Avery. This is where we show you how to leverage your ministry know-how into sustainable income outside of the church, through a business or side hustle that’s right for you. So you can serve God and provide for your family, no matter what. 

Are you a member of our private More Than a Pastor community on Facebook? If not, I’d love for you to join today. It’s absolutely free. And each week I provide content that’s only available to the members of the group. You can share your feedback on this week’s episode, and get the encouragement and support you need on your journey to creating income outside of your church. Click here to join the More Than a Pastor Facebook Group.

So in our last episode, episode 19, I had the privilege of sharing an interview with Les Hughes and Jon Sanders of EntrePastors. It was my first interview on the show.

They interviewed me first for their podcast, and then I interviewed them as well for mine.

I really love Les and Jon and what they’re doing at Entrepastors. That episode was 50 minutes long, so I didn’t really have time to share my take on some of the things they talked about.

My Big Takeaways from Interview with Les Hughes & Jon Sanders

  1.  The power of community and relationships - I met Les and Jon through a mutual connection with Dan Miller - we are all part of Dan's 48 Days Eagles community. Additionally, Jon and Les are part of Dan's mastermind group. When I heard Jon and Les were hosting their own EntrePastors live event in October of 2021, and that Dan Miller was going to be one of the speakers, I registered right away so I could have the opportunity to meet Jon and Les, and renew my connection with Dan. While I was there, I made some other great personal connections, with people like John Stange and Vincent Pugliese, and these connections continue to bless me. There is power in connecting with others who share our goals and values, and with people who are just ahead of us a bit so we can learn from their experience. It's been said that you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. Question: Are you spending enough quality time with people who are encouraging you, building you up, and helping you achieve your worthwhile goals and dreams?
  2. Les and Jon's journey as pastors and entrepreneurs - I asked them to take me to the point in their lives where they discovered they were “more than a pastor."Jon had been a firefighter before God called him to pastoral ministry, and he felt he had to leave the fire service in order to serve God in the church. Some years later, he felt God giving firefighting back to him, and he began serving full time in the church and full-time in the fire service. Later, Jon launched a platform to encourage pastors serving in small town, and he grew a successful coaching business from that. Les had entrepreneurship modeled for him by his father, who had been a pastor and an entrepreneur and always had things going on the side. Les has been involved in real estate, writing books, and doing coaching with other pastors. They both had experiences where their churches came upon a serious financial strain and had to make cutbacks. Thanks to their outside income, they had no problem continuing to serve God and provide for their family no matter what happened to their church's finances. Question: Do you know what your next step is for creating income freedom for your family? If not, we can help!
  3. How the wrong "mindset" holds pastors back - Les and Jon keyed in on something that holds many pastors and churches back: The narrative of the starving pastor. The idea that pastors need to stay "poor and humble." That we can't have nice things. That we don't have permission to thrive financially. And if we do take that permission for ourselves, we sometimes feel guilty for thriving and being able to create more for our family. Jon and Les came to a point where they were done with this poverty mindset. They believe that God wants pastors to thrive in every aspect of our lives - including our finances. And that God has provided pastors with marketable skills that we can use to create income outside of the church. Question: Are you waiting for someone else to give you permission to thrive financially? Permission is hereby granted! :)
  4. Helping pastors understand and leverage their marketable skills - Pastors have so many amazing skills and experiences that can be leveraged into the marketplace. We are speakers, writers, coaches, mentors, leaders, counselors, spiritual guides, fundraisers, building campaign managers, sales people, marketers, and so much more. Could it be that God has given pastors the ability to self-fund our ministry in the church through the skills He's given us that can be used in the marketplace? Question: Can you make a list of 10 or 20 skills you've developed in ministry, that you could leverage into sustainable income through your own business or side hustle?
  5. Now is the time for pastors to launch their own income streams - If there's ever been a time for pastors to create income outside the church, the time is now. COVID is speeding up the effect of the political, social, cultural, and economic trends that point to a continual decline in participation in traditional "institutional" types of evangelical churches. Many churches will struggle to survive on tithes and offerings along, and many pastors who were full-time may need to become part-time. Wise pastors are like the Sons of Issachar who understood the times and knew what they needed to do. Question: What's one business or side hustle idea that you've always wanted to pursue?
  6. The benefits of bi-vocational/co-vocational ministry - There are several benefits to becoming a bi-vocational or co-vocational pastor. First, pastors need to be much more focused and intentional in what they do in their ministry. Work expands to the amount of time we give it. So if we give ourselves 50 hours it will take 50. But if we give only 30, it will take 30...but we need to be more focused in the decisions we make. Second, bi-vo/co-vo pastors must delegate more. They can't do it all. And this allows leadership to expand and gives others the opportunity to use their gifts and talents to serve the church. Third, it helps pastors understand better what their congregation members experience in their work lives. Fourth, it fosters greater time and financial freedom for the pastor. You have more control over your schedule and your financial destiny. Not that you want to pursue wealth for the sake of being rich, but so that you can thrive financially and be able to give more and be a greater blessing to others. Question: What's one expectation or responsibility you have in the church that would need to change if you became co-vocational?


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